Cium Vs. Zinc 415m3p
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Cium vs. Zinc vs. Nickel Plating Comparison
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Cium vs. Zinc vs. Nickel Plating Comparison Rolled lead anodes www.lead-anode.com Copper or Zinc electrowinning Le PlombFrancais/RSR technologies
Q.
We are currently looking for an alternative to cium plated parts. The argument for an "equivalent" to cium plate has been going round and round. The parts are threaded assemblies and maintaining tight dimensions is critical to the operation of the assembly. We were getting a .2 Cium plate (commercial grade). The alternatives appear to be Zinc plating or Nickel Plating. Tin-Zinc plating is not an option with our current vendor. With Zinc, the interaction with metals and the sacrificial nature are issues. The corrosive by-products may cause operation issues in the threads and other tight areas. The base material is SA-1983-B7 Steel. Can anyone offer any insight to this? The consensus opinion is that Nickel plating offers better corrosion resistance than Zinc. The plater says the Zinc doesn't offer any less protection than the Cium plate. I'm just shooting for something comparable to the Cium. Any advice/opinions are greatly appreciated. Brian Bukoski - Erie, Pennsylvania, USA
S I M U L T A N E O U S R E S P O N S
A.
Here are two opposites to ponder, Brian: 1). there is no true substitute for cium plate because it offers sacrificial protection, malleability, freedom from sticky and bulky corrosion products, galvanic compatibility with aluminum, softness, and reliable torqueing through freedom from stick-slip, which no other metal or alloy offers. 2). the overwhelming volume of hardware worldwide is zinc plated rather than cad plated. In many cases just switching to zinc will do fine; in other cases it could be a disaster. It depends on how critical the issues I mentioned are. Nickel does not offer sacrificial protection, but sacrifical protection may not be required for your application. Please try to describe it. Thanks!
4/25/2013 4:10 PM
Cium vs. Zinc vs. Nickel Plating Comparison
2 of 7
http://www.finishing.com/130/89.shtml
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET finishing.com Brick, New Jersey
A.
First, there is no direct equivalent of cium. If you have to go away from it, you need to decide what properties you need and in what order or amount of preference. Zinc and cium have similar but not equal corrosion resistances. One is better in industrial settings and the other is better in maritime settings. Tin-zinc is the accepted best substitute by most. Nickel offer better corrosion resistance, but has far less lubricity and is not as malleable. You might want to look into some of the other zinc alloys like zinc-nickel, zinc-iron, zinc-cobalt to see if one of those might work as there are a lot more plating shops with those than with tin-zinc.
E S
James Watts - Navarre, Florida
A. You would not get the corrosion protection you are looking for from Barrel plated Nickel; your best alternative would be Zinc plate to approx. 4 /10th of a thou and finish with a yellow / iridescent chromate; if the fasteners are any harder than about 28 Rockwell "C" then you might need to consider Mechanical Plating , or plating from a Chloride Zinc solution if the surface is high in carbon & Carbides In most cases Zinc is a better performer than Cium in practice however this is not shown in accelerated corrosion testing . Regards,
John Tenison - Woods - Victoria Australia
A.
Brian,
You said that Tin / Zinc is out of the question. How some of the other alloy deposits such as Zinc / Nickel which seems to be the best of your two worlds, will give you some of the best of both zinc and nickel deposits. In my opinion Zinc is not as good as Cium for corrosion although the chromate are. The nickel deposit will give you superior corrosion but will loose lubricity, nickel deposits tend to be much harder. It is impossible to replace all the properties of Cium with one deposit, but with
4/25/2013 4:10 PM
Cium vs. Zinc vs. Nickel Plating Comparison
3 of 7
http://www.finishing.com/130/89.shtml
some research you can get what you have need for. Chris Snyder plater - Charlotte, North Carolina
A.
The finish that will work well for you is Alkaline Zn/Ni 12-16% Ni. This process with a yellow chromate will give at least 1000 hours NSS to white rust and 2500 hours to red rust (assuming 8 microns minimum). The product produces very little in the way of white corrosion products and has excellent slip properties. Hope that helps. Regards, Jonathan Timms - Hong Kong
A.
The topic of Cium replacement finishes has been ongoing since '95, when the final regulations in the automotive came to light. Many finishes were tested, and very few offer all of the benefits of Cium. We just completed a Cad Replacement Study with the US Army, in which our coatings (both chrome-containing and chrome-free versions) were chosen as the best performing alternatives for Cad. They offer most, if not all, of the benefits of Cad, but they are water-based and environmentally friendly. The areas looked at were: cosmetic corrosion, galvanic corrosion (including pit depth and pitted volume), torque-tension (including clampload at 90 ft-lbs, break-loose torque, and torque range), thickness, conductivity and cost. Tin Zinc and Zinc + Yellow were tested in this study and did not compare to the Dacromet(r) and Geomet(r) products. They showed excessive white/red corrosion very early in testing, and there was a large amount of pitting caused by the bimetallic cell (the bolts were tested assembled to an Al fixture). Also, the Army didn't consider Zn Nickel for this study because it did not perform well in their preliminary studies. At the very base of the results of this study was to not consider Zinc Plating + Yellow Chromate as an alternative to Cium.
Andrew R. Pfeifer - Chardon, Ohio, USA
i.
Hi Andrew.
Yes, zinc-rich dip-spin coatings (there are several other suppliers including Magni and Dorken) are an excellent alternative finish for many applications in both automotive and military. They may be the best choice 3 out of ten times or even 7 out of ten times ... but I am very surprised that the Army called them the "best performing alternative for Cad" since most professionals feel that nothing should ever be substituted for cium plating except on a case-by-case basis after design review. Is the army implying that dip-spin coated fasteners are the best performing alternative for cium plated fasteners on aluminum aircraft? I think that would be a horrible mistake. Substitution without a design review is a bad idea.
4/25/2013 4:10 PM
Cium vs. Zinc vs. Nickel Plating Comparison
4 of 7
http://www.finishing.com/130/89.shtml
Regards,
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET finishing.com Brick, New Jersey +++++++
A.
Cium is a great corrosion inhibitor, however we're finding that a properly plated piece of iron with tin-zinc outperforms the best cium plating job. Tin-zinc is malleable, offers great ductility and torque characteristics without chipping or flaking off the plated steel part. It offers excellent secondary processing without cracking. Nickel is terrible for all of the above characteristics and offers poor corrosion characteristics when even compared to plain old zinc. , for wear protection, hard chrome and nickel are the best. For corrosion protection, zinc and cium are the best. If you want ultimate corrosion protection, go with tin-zinc. Zinc-Nickel is okay for corrosion protection but is lacks in secondary processing characteristics. The plating cracks when torquing is applied to the metal part. Tin-zinc usually doesn't.
Roger Fasting - Sacramento, California, USA
+++++++
Q.
I would like to know which coating is better Zinc Coating or Nickel Coating. Which one of the two will provide better corrosion resistance, surface finish. Bhavneet Singh buyer - Shanghai, China
+++++++
A.
If one coating were just plain better than the other, nobody would ever use the other, Bhavneet. As mentioned above, the corrosion resistance of zinc will be better in many instances. That's because zinc is anodic to steel and can sacrificially protect it, whereas nickel is not anodic to steel but cathodic. But nickel is self-leveling and will certainly give a better "surface finish". Please describe the actual component you are thinking about plating, and then people may be able to give you an assessment based on the function and the environment it will be exposed to. Thanks!
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET finishing.com Brick, New Jersey February 26, 2008
4/25/2013 4:10 PM
Cium vs. Zinc vs. Nickel Plating Comparison
5 of 7
http://www.finishing.com/130/89.shtml
Q.
We are looking for a suitable replacement for the zinc coating found on some of our parts. The reason being is zinc's reaction with Polyamides 6 or 66 (reference GM's Worldwide standardGMW3044). Would nickel plating act as a suitable replacement as far as friction properties are concerned? Rick Leslie Automotive - Troy, Michigan January 22, 2009
Q.
I have a '98 Cadillac Deville...I'm looking to replace all rotors. It's just for daily driving and NOT very aggressive driving. Which plating is better for this application? zinc or cium? Brian johnson auto repair - Lancaster Texas
January 28, 2009
A.
Hi, Brian. Cium is a cumulative biotoxin much like Lead and Mercury. It's use is forbidden in many countries, and it should only be used where it's unique combination of properties (most of which are listed above) is required. Because rotors can be satisfactory without cium plating, they should not (in my opinion) be cium plated. Regards,
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET finishing.com Brick, New Jersey August 9, 2010
Q.
I was wondering what would be better concerning self drilling fasteners (Zinc Nickel or Zinc) both would come with a top coat, but in your opinion which would serve as a more corrosive resistant undercoat? many thanks Donnie Peterson - Melbourne Australia
August 10, 2010
A.
Hi, Donnie Nickel is primarily a decorative finish. It is a "barrier layer" finish: once compromised by porosity or a scratch, it accelerates the rusting of the fastener. Zinc-nickel is a cathodic protection coating intended as a replacement for cium or an improvement upon plain zinc. If you are going to topcoat the fastener, zinc-nickel is almost surely the better choice and may even be a bit less expensive.
4/25/2013 4:10 PM
Cium vs. Zinc vs. Nickel Plating Comparison
6 of 7
http://www.finishing.com/130/89.shtml
Regards,
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET finishing.com Brick, New Jersey April 18, 2012
Q.
Which plating would be a good alternative to cad plating suspension bolts for a classic car restoration? The car won't be driven much, just basically need a plating that looks like cad zinc, and will be safe to use. Mitch Frego - Seattle Washington USA
April 19, 2012
A.
Hi Mitch.
Zinc plating is probably okay, and is very widely available. But make sure the plater knows that these are suspension bolts (probably high strength that will require hydrogen de-embrittlement baking). Regards,
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET finishing.com Brick, New Jersey December 17, 2012
Q.
I'm looking for a suitable plating for the steel housing of an E85 compatible fuel pump. High ethanol means the potential for attracting water and the susceptibility to corrosion. The housing is basically tube steel which is crimped at the top and bottom holding the inlet and outlet caps in place. Are either of the plating options in this discussion suitable for this application?
Todd Wilson - Jupiter, Florida, USA
April 20, 2013
Q.
I am looking for intelligent opinions on plating hardware of all kind on a Porsche road/race car. This includes engine studs, nuts and bolts vital for engine operation, engine mounting bolts, etc. Also I am replating all fuel hard lines. I have a selection of zinc platers and one cium locally, among others. I have had cad plated in the past and some decorative nickel. Please help if you can. It's greatly appreciated.
4/25/2013 4:10 PM
Cium vs. Zinc vs. Nickel Plating Comparison
7 of 7
http://www.finishing.com/130/89.shtml
Marcus Herman - Grain Valley, Missouri, USA
April 23, 2013
A.
Hi. Even critical jetliner parts are no longer cium plated despite its advantages, so cium should not even be considered. Nickel is a decorative finish, not intended primarily for underhood components. Zinc plating should be good. A plating of zinc alloy like zinc-cobalt, zinc-iron, zinc-nickel, or my preference tin-zinc should be even better. Regards,
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET finishing.com Brick, New Jersey
India Flights Jet Airways www.jetairways.com Great Deals On Flights To India. Safe & Secure. Book On Jetairways™
Jobshops
Capital Equip. & Install'n
Chemicals & Consumables
Consult'g, Train'g, Software
Environmental Compliance
Testing Svcs. & Devices
Used & Surplus
©1995-2013 finishing.com
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4/25/2013 4:10 PM
1 of 7
HOME / sitemap
FAQs
BOOKS
http://www.finishing.com/130/89.shtml
Help Wanteds
you are here:
Hotline/Forum
=> Letter 13089
Cium vs. Zinc vs. Nickel Plating Comparison Rolled lead anodes www.lead-anode.com Copper or Zinc electrowinning Le PlombFrancais/RSR technologies
Q.
We are currently looking for an alternative to cium plated parts. The argument for an "equivalent" to cium plate has been going round and round. The parts are threaded assemblies and maintaining tight dimensions is critical to the operation of the assembly. We were getting a .2 Cium plate (commercial grade). The alternatives appear to be Zinc plating or Nickel Plating. Tin-Zinc plating is not an option with our current vendor. With Zinc, the interaction with metals and the sacrificial nature are issues. The corrosive by-products may cause operation issues in the threads and other tight areas. The base material is SA-1983-B7 Steel. Can anyone offer any insight to this? The consensus opinion is that Nickel plating offers better corrosion resistance than Zinc. The plater says the Zinc doesn't offer any less protection than the Cium plate. I'm just shooting for something comparable to the Cium. Any advice/opinions are greatly appreciated. Brian Bukoski - Erie, Pennsylvania, USA
S I M U L T A N E O U S R E S P O N S
A.
Here are two opposites to ponder, Brian: 1). there is no true substitute for cium plate because it offers sacrificial protection, malleability, freedom from sticky and bulky corrosion products, galvanic compatibility with aluminum, softness, and reliable torqueing through freedom from stick-slip, which no other metal or alloy offers. 2). the overwhelming volume of hardware worldwide is zinc plated rather than cad plated. In many cases just switching to zinc will do fine; in other cases it could be a disaster. It depends on how critical the issues I mentioned are. Nickel does not offer sacrificial protection, but sacrifical protection may not be required for your application. Please try to describe it. Thanks!
4/25/2013 4:10 PM
Cium vs. Zinc vs. Nickel Plating Comparison
2 of 7
http://www.finishing.com/130/89.shtml
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET finishing.com Brick, New Jersey
A.
First, there is no direct equivalent of cium. If you have to go away from it, you need to decide what properties you need and in what order or amount of preference. Zinc and cium have similar but not equal corrosion resistances. One is better in industrial settings and the other is better in maritime settings. Tin-zinc is the accepted best substitute by most. Nickel offer better corrosion resistance, but has far less lubricity and is not as malleable. You might want to look into some of the other zinc alloys like zinc-nickel, zinc-iron, zinc-cobalt to see if one of those might work as there are a lot more plating shops with those than with tin-zinc.
E S
James Watts - Navarre, Florida
A. You would not get the corrosion protection you are looking for from Barrel plated Nickel; your best alternative would be Zinc plate to approx. 4 /10th of a thou and finish with a yellow / iridescent chromate; if the fasteners are any harder than about 28 Rockwell "C" then you might need to consider Mechanical Plating , or plating from a Chloride Zinc solution if the surface is high in carbon & Carbides In most cases Zinc is a better performer than Cium in practice however this is not shown in accelerated corrosion testing . Regards,
John Tenison - Woods - Victoria Australia
A.
Brian,
You said that Tin / Zinc is out of the question. How some of the other alloy deposits such as Zinc / Nickel which seems to be the best of your two worlds, will give you some of the best of both zinc and nickel deposits. In my opinion Zinc is not as good as Cium for corrosion although the chromate are. The nickel deposit will give you superior corrosion but will loose lubricity, nickel deposits tend to be much harder. It is impossible to replace all the properties of Cium with one deposit, but with
4/25/2013 4:10 PM
Cium vs. Zinc vs. Nickel Plating Comparison
3 of 7
http://www.finishing.com/130/89.shtml
some research you can get what you have need for. Chris Snyder plater - Charlotte, North Carolina
A.
The finish that will work well for you is Alkaline Zn/Ni 12-16% Ni. This process with a yellow chromate will give at least 1000 hours NSS to white rust and 2500 hours to red rust (assuming 8 microns minimum). The product produces very little in the way of white corrosion products and has excellent slip properties. Hope that helps. Regards, Jonathan Timms - Hong Kong
A.
The topic of Cium replacement finishes has been ongoing since '95, when the final regulations in the automotive came to light. Many finishes were tested, and very few offer all of the benefits of Cium. We just completed a Cad Replacement Study with the US Army, in which our coatings (both chrome-containing and chrome-free versions) were chosen as the best performing alternatives for Cad. They offer most, if not all, of the benefits of Cad, but they are water-based and environmentally friendly. The areas looked at were: cosmetic corrosion, galvanic corrosion (including pit depth and pitted volume), torque-tension (including clampload at 90 ft-lbs, break-loose torque, and torque range), thickness, conductivity and cost. Tin Zinc and Zinc + Yellow were tested in this study and did not compare to the Dacromet(r) and Geomet(r) products. They showed excessive white/red corrosion very early in testing, and there was a large amount of pitting caused by the bimetallic cell (the bolts were tested assembled to an Al fixture). Also, the Army didn't consider Zn Nickel for this study because it did not perform well in their preliminary studies. At the very base of the results of this study was to not consider Zinc Plating + Yellow Chromate as an alternative to Cium.
Andrew R. Pfeifer - Chardon, Ohio, USA
i.
Hi Andrew.
Yes, zinc-rich dip-spin coatings (there are several other suppliers including Magni and Dorken) are an excellent alternative finish for many applications in both automotive and military. They may be the best choice 3 out of ten times or even 7 out of ten times ... but I am very surprised that the Army called them the "best performing alternative for Cad" since most professionals feel that nothing should ever be substituted for cium plating except on a case-by-case basis after design review. Is the army implying that dip-spin coated fasteners are the best performing alternative for cium plated fasteners on aluminum aircraft? I think that would be a horrible mistake. Substitution without a design review is a bad idea.
4/25/2013 4:10 PM
Cium vs. Zinc vs. Nickel Plating Comparison
4 of 7
http://www.finishing.com/130/89.shtml
Regards,
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET finishing.com Brick, New Jersey +++++++
A.
Cium is a great corrosion inhibitor, however we're finding that a properly plated piece of iron with tin-zinc outperforms the best cium plating job. Tin-zinc is malleable, offers great ductility and torque characteristics without chipping or flaking off the plated steel part. It offers excellent secondary processing without cracking. Nickel is terrible for all of the above characteristics and offers poor corrosion characteristics when even compared to plain old zinc. , for wear protection, hard chrome and nickel are the best. For corrosion protection, zinc and cium are the best. If you want ultimate corrosion protection, go with tin-zinc. Zinc-Nickel is okay for corrosion protection but is lacks in secondary processing characteristics. The plating cracks when torquing is applied to the metal part. Tin-zinc usually doesn't.
Roger Fasting - Sacramento, California, USA
+++++++
Q.
I would like to know which coating is better Zinc Coating or Nickel Coating. Which one of the two will provide better corrosion resistance, surface finish. Bhavneet Singh buyer - Shanghai, China
+++++++
A.
If one coating were just plain better than the other, nobody would ever use the other, Bhavneet. As mentioned above, the corrosion resistance of zinc will be better in many instances. That's because zinc is anodic to steel and can sacrificially protect it, whereas nickel is not anodic to steel but cathodic. But nickel is self-leveling and will certainly give a better "surface finish". Please describe the actual component you are thinking about plating, and then people may be able to give you an assessment based on the function and the environment it will be exposed to. Thanks!
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET finishing.com Brick, New Jersey February 26, 2008
4/25/2013 4:10 PM
Cium vs. Zinc vs. Nickel Plating Comparison
5 of 7
http://www.finishing.com/130/89.shtml
Q.
We are looking for a suitable replacement for the zinc coating found on some of our parts. The reason being is zinc's reaction with Polyamides 6 or 66 (reference GM's Worldwide standardGMW3044). Would nickel plating act as a suitable replacement as far as friction properties are concerned? Rick Leslie Automotive - Troy, Michigan January 22, 2009
Q.
I have a '98 Cadillac Deville...I'm looking to replace all rotors. It's just for daily driving and NOT very aggressive driving. Which plating is better for this application? zinc or cium? Brian johnson auto repair - Lancaster Texas
January 28, 2009
A.
Hi, Brian. Cium is a cumulative biotoxin much like Lead and Mercury. It's use is forbidden in many countries, and it should only be used where it's unique combination of properties (most of which are listed above) is required. Because rotors can be satisfactory without cium plating, they should not (in my opinion) be cium plated. Regards,
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET finishing.com Brick, New Jersey August 9, 2010
Q.
I was wondering what would be better concerning self drilling fasteners (Zinc Nickel or Zinc) both would come with a top coat, but in your opinion which would serve as a more corrosive resistant undercoat? many thanks Donnie Peterson - Melbourne Australia
August 10, 2010
A.
Hi, Donnie Nickel is primarily a decorative finish. It is a "barrier layer" finish: once compromised by porosity or a scratch, it accelerates the rusting of the fastener. Zinc-nickel is a cathodic protection coating intended as a replacement for cium or an improvement upon plain zinc. If you are going to topcoat the fastener, zinc-nickel is almost surely the better choice and may even be a bit less expensive.
4/25/2013 4:10 PM
Cium vs. Zinc vs. Nickel Plating Comparison
6 of 7
http://www.finishing.com/130/89.shtml
Regards,
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET finishing.com Brick, New Jersey April 18, 2012
Q.
Which plating would be a good alternative to cad plating suspension bolts for a classic car restoration? The car won't be driven much, just basically need a plating that looks like cad zinc, and will be safe to use. Mitch Frego - Seattle Washington USA
April 19, 2012
A.
Hi Mitch.
Zinc plating is probably okay, and is very widely available. But make sure the plater knows that these are suspension bolts (probably high strength that will require hydrogen de-embrittlement baking). Regards,
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET finishing.com Brick, New Jersey December 17, 2012
Q.
I'm looking for a suitable plating for the steel housing of an E85 compatible fuel pump. High ethanol means the potential for attracting water and the susceptibility to corrosion. The housing is basically tube steel which is crimped at the top and bottom holding the inlet and outlet caps in place. Are either of the plating options in this discussion suitable for this application?
Todd Wilson - Jupiter, Florida, USA
April 20, 2013
Q.
I am looking for intelligent opinions on plating hardware of all kind on a Porsche road/race car. This includes engine studs, nuts and bolts vital for engine operation, engine mounting bolts, etc. Also I am replating all fuel hard lines. I have a selection of zinc platers and one cium locally, among others. I have had cad plated in the past and some decorative nickel. Please help if you can. It's greatly appreciated.
4/25/2013 4:10 PM
Cium vs. Zinc vs. Nickel Plating Comparison
7 of 7
http://www.finishing.com/130/89.shtml
Marcus Herman - Grain Valley, Missouri, USA
April 23, 2013
A.
Hi. Even critical jetliner parts are no longer cium plated despite its advantages, so cium should not even be considered. Nickel is a decorative finish, not intended primarily for underhood components. Zinc plating should be good. A plating of zinc alloy like zinc-cobalt, zinc-iron, zinc-nickel, or my preference tin-zinc should be even better. Regards,
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET finishing.com Brick, New Jersey
India Flights Jet Airways www.jetairways.com Great Deals On Flights To India. Safe & Secure. Book On Jetairways™
Jobshops
Capital Equip. & Install'n
Chemicals & Consumables
Consult'g, Train'g, Software
Environmental Compliance
Testing Svcs. & Devices
Used & Surplus
©1995-2013 finishing.com
-
Privacy
-
Search
4/25/2013 4:10 PM
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